I like to read blogs on SL Gor and came across this discussion about (Manthers)
by Marlies Dasmijn
She talked about a change where Free Male used to raid and take away a panther for role play, saying that now , Free Males raid and the tie and leave the panthers not taking any captives.
She goes on to say males are avoiding role play with panthers because male in rl are chaning to panther roles. she discusses that many males do not want to role play capture with panthers as they think they are male in rl. saying a lack of trust in the role play environment.
I found this an interesting discussion and decided to explore it more closely, I sent out a notice to group chat and asked for interested people to send me there thoughts here is what I discovered.
I am writing a story about Manthers
( male panthers)
please send me your thoughts
Tara (boundtight): Manthers, huh? That’s an interesting topic indeed. As far as i’m concerned, i don’t care what gender the person behind the keyboard is so long as they are proficient at RP and are capable of acting appropriately, meaning that they know their role and play it. Unless we pry into somebody’s personal first life, there’s no reason that information like that should either given or matter. We’re all here to have fun, who are we to tell some people that they cannot explore the roles of the opposite sex?
bodi (bodicapagan): I agree it does not matter who is behind av in rl, i hope everyone who is rp plays it realistic.
Veritus Xue: Manthers – define? To me the very definition of it “breaks the 4th wall” of SL/RL anyway. On a strict outer level, I am a RL male playing a male character with many fictional elements in SL. But I choose to be pretty close to my actual self. Since don’t know the RL nature of everyone I interact with – nor they mine – a lot of this is taken on trust or simply not used. So while I’d have no interaction in RL specifically with a man playing a panther character in SL, when in SL I choose to accept “people” here as they choose to present themselves and only ask that of me.
Veritus Xue: I do think too many Manthers in an area/band/tribe may tilt the authenicity, but again this is a fictional place and who can say what a “real” Panther IS entirely! (half the drama and arguments are BtB vs. GE vs what Norman meant vs. what he didn’t say but is likely possible, etc.!)
bodi (bodicapagan): i think that is how most people feel. I think the problem comes when men play women and not able to act like a female would.
Veritus Xue: I do enjoy roleplay with Panthers since I think their particular “conflict” is very interesting. (The fear of men, of being enslaved by men, but yet being slaves to their own sexual needs for a man).
bodi (bodicapagan): Do you think that how most modern women are? I think and is my opinion, some manthers , just act female to engage in sex, and this becomes boring , the best are the ones who act like women and no one know their true rl gender.
Veritus Xue: Of course some would dispute that but I’ll take it as given for my interpretation. So a “Strong, Fierce, Free, Confident, yet vulnerable Woman” is tricky, and probably rewarding to play. In short, I welcome roleplay by good role players in SL, no matter what their gender is behind the keyboard. I think a good Panther like this is difficult – I cannot do it, but I won’t say no man could. … Only that I suspect a group of Manthers will probably miss many of the delightful feminine aspects of the Panther character.
Veritus Xue: sorry, just rambling, will respond to your writing afterwards
bodi (bodicapagan): thanks I appreciate it.
Veritus Xue: That said, I don’t want to KNOW I’m interacting with a Manther… but I will praise good roleplay and expect the author to accept that compliment. Who is to say what is “too much”? Here I think we have to give credit,and appreciation, to the En and Se. They should be the leaders in RP and in setting the “tone”, “attitude”, and ideals of the band. GE or BTB. That isn’t to say each of us, free or slave, sub or Dom don’t have any responsibility! But for a Panther Band, I look to a good En and Se to vet and mentor and reward their members in good RP. Those that don’t, well, they can do SL and Gor their own way, but my interaction tends towards bands that emphasize good RP and I still think Ens and Ses deserve praise or at least recognition of how well they build and hold a band to their specific notions and play — Manther or not.
So are Manthers good or bad in Gor? I can only answer that with “how well do you roleplay the part of a Panther. If well, let’s interact!”
Ok, that’s my raw rambling dump. Let me see what you wrote 😉
I do think there are some who are in SL, and even Gor, “just for sex”. They may have satisfaction, but are probably not people I interact with. Are most Panthers who”only want sex” manthers? I honestly don’t think so. Again, being focused on Role Play of enduring story arcs I don’t see a lot of people or for short scenes (an hour or two).
bodi (bodicapagan): You are right.
Veritus Xue: But yeah, there are plenty of female “sluts”, kajira, bonds, and panthers who seem only want a quick fling – whether they are male or female – and fortunately for me there are plenty who enjoy longer deeper more meaningful “relationships” built in Gor.. With sex as the icing.
bodi (bodicapagan): I think if you want a brief encounter you can find is more difficult to find lasting here.
Veritus Xue: As an “observer” near a couple of Panther bands, I do see “free men” wander through hoping for a quick use (or being used) and not seen again or with no desire to develop more than the quick enslavement and fuck/rape shave and release. Are they really men RL? Probably, but I’d say they are the more desperate shallow “selfish ‘get-me-off’ in SL who take more than they give”. Maybe that’s pretty judgemental, but then again they have no use of me in SL or Gor. Thankfully Gor is large enough for many kinds and those who enjoy interacting (in various settings long/short duration, GE/BtB, pew-pew, RP, [and these are not meant to be mutually exclusive]) tend to find each other or be on close by lands so they do interact often and to mutual enjoyment. That is what Role Play to me is about- not just to enjoy the satisfactory finesse of playing my character well, but to enjoy others enjoying their play with my help/input/contributions as my character. But the insipid (even weak/wimp ) are usually not going to find much lasting roleplay. You have to give a lot with discernment and discipline unselfishly to receive back a lot. Being selfish will kill roleplay, as a Panther or any other Gor character, faster than playing a different gender.
bodi (bodicapagan): I think you are right rp takes give and take and to be able to relate to your and others character.
Veritus Xue: Again, I can’t – haven’t tried since I have no desire to play any female, but I think some “manthers” could. Why don’t I try? Honestly,whileI don’t think I think like a woman, I am pretty sure I’d make a very poor simplistic female rather than the richness and nuances I adore in the female sex.
bodi (bodicapagan): And i did have a go at rp a male it lasted 20 min.
Veritus Xue: Yes, – again, I am not for everyone, nor everyone should be as I want;) There’s plenty still good in SL (and Gor). While certain “ideals?” may wax and wane, I don’t think Gor is dead at all!
bodi (bodicapagan): i got caught by a group of panther who were real mean to me and shipped me off.
Veritus Xue: laughs – yes, I chatted a while once (RL voice confirming) about how hard it is to play the opposite sex. You are almost always reduced to stereotypes. (That is if you define a man as more than a human with a penis that does his thinking and a woman as more than an attractive thin pussy with huge breasts).
bodi (bodicapagan): Thanks so much for your thoughts.
Veritus Xue: Not impossible, but beyond my abilities. Still, a Manther or two in a band with a strong En holding to BTB, I’d role playwith and undoubtedly have…: You’re welcome, take care!
Ok..what do I think about manthers? There are a lot of things that I think about concerning them. Years ago, when straight men actually would hunt panther girls in roleplay, it was a lot of fun.
Once manthers entered it, I saw many straight men, who formally would hunt panthers as part of their roleplay, disappear, because they were convinced that a panther girl was actually a man playing the role in RL. This greatly hurt the role itself, because many women would choose not to play a panther girl, and tribes that wanted to form, basically folded quickly. That’s the main issue that I have with manthers. They hurt how the role is perceived by anyone else.
With that being said, I don’t really have a problem with manthers…they just have to tell me, or put in their profiles, that they are men. I’d let a manther join my tribe, if I knew it was a man in RL, but I would NOT want to see them role playing sexual with someone who doesn’t rp with men sexually. I would expect the manther to tell everyone in group chat, that he is a man behind the comp. I would also tell any man that wanted to rp with us, when encountering a manther in our tribe, that it is a man that they are playing with.
I currently have a manther in Dani’s Band. He tells everyone in his profile that he is a man, so I don’t have a problem with that.
What some people in SL Gor have to understand, is that not all men that want to play panther girls are gay. Some like to play the role, because it’s interesting and a lot more fun than some other roles out there for men. Plus, there’s a lot more rp generally, AND, well, we’re hawt 😛
Recently, it seems that the old roleplay ways are coming back. Straight men are hunting us again, just like they did years ago. There are still some that won’t rp us, just because they think that we’re all men, but that percentage is dwindling.
I can only hope that more rp comes our way, despite the manthers.
It does not matter if a man plays a panther…….. but it is every persons right to know if it is a man or woman playing a panther `if` they are about to role play with them and that person is claiming to be female. but then the manther will argue it is just a game and `buyer beware`…….. so then it becomes a debate about the deception……….. where it gets really fucked up is the second circle of role play………… so a man pretending to be female inside the game of gor can argue i am playing a role i can be anything i want.. it is up to others to take the risk that i am male or female or maybe some just don’t care anyway…………. but !!!!!!!!!! then when they are in group chat or local chat or raid group chat speaking OOC…….. They carry on the lie………. then they are flat lying to everyone around them. Some just don`t speak ooc……..but most do and speak as a female even though they are male.. they even argue ooc to others as female.. so then it is not true role play it is ale..
But they argue it is all role play…………. then u have variations like gay man both playing manthers furring each other and saying they just like to play at it but they don’t like females real life……… maybe they dare not admit in here that they are gay.. there are two just like that on the mainland.. fur each other constantly in the open every single night both guys saying we are not gay… ok but that’s a dude ur playing with and you know it…… it gets pretty fucked up the deeper u go on t he variations.. but my main gripe is the main one i said at the beginning…….
bodi (bodicapagan): Do you think if no relationship it matter, because i feel unless you want to have deeper it not matter if you only chat, and how would you know if they are or not if they not say?
VickyValk: that totally depends on who is playing with them and the context.. also what they have declared…
bodi (bodicapagan): You mean if they say in profile they male or female?
VickyValk: yes: or: if the person playing with them says are you female lets role play: then they lie.
bodi (bodicapagan): Nods that would be unfair , unless you never know and just accept they are female.
VickyValk: then that is buyer beware: but manthers overcompensate and put female verified: verified by who: then when you challenge them they refuse to prove it: think of it from a female point of view a real panther: so she is by a fire and gets approached by a manther: that manther role plays sex with them: the panther does not know they are being sexual with a man : and may really not wish to.
bodi (bodicapagan): nods i know what you mean , if i rp i like to know who with , but we all take on trust.
Claude (claude.belgar): Here are my thoughts on manthers.
bodi (bodicapagan): Sure, takes a pen
Claude (claude.belgar): They don’t exist. There is no such thing as manthers. What exist is role players.
bodi (bodicapagan): Yes smiles, is a sl word.
Claude (claude.belgar): I find it quite regrettable that, unless you happen you be born with the right genitals, you would be forbidden to play the role you wish. yes some will abuse it, but they should not be the standard, the one playing their role well, regardless of their gender, should.
—————————————————————————————————————————————–Sarka from Zima Ak’am
In response to your notice I feel I should make a couple of points:
Firstly, be careful about specifics, people’s rl identities, and that includes their gender, is protected under the TOS. I would hate to see you get into trouble.
Secondly, the nature of roleplay is that it allows people to be what they are not or can’t be and in my mind the only reason to care about someone’s rl gender is if you are basically a sex role player.
Otherwise RL gender has no relevance. However as a faction leader I do like to know who is playing a different gender and I only request that they refrain from sex rp with anyone who does not know their RL gender.
—————————————————————————————————————————————–I then looked up the term Manther
Manther. Noun. (plural manthers) (North America, slang) A man of middle age who actively seeks the casual, often sexual, companionship of younger women, typically less than 35 years old; by implication a “sexual predator”.
Manther dictionary definition | manther defined – YourDictionary
This is a slang word not in the oxford dictionary.
So maybe we should not use these words
Please comment on the discussion by either replying to the blog or sent to me
In conclusion i believe that in SL we can be who we want to be , human , none human, gorian , male , female. The problem comes when we interact with each other, and people have feelings behind the AV.
If we become attached to other peoples AV and we develop a relationship , there comes a point when we either stay in character, and never reveal who we are in rl and we except them for their AV and gender. Or RL comes in to the relationship and disclosure is made , people either accept the person for who they are and they may be different, which either breaks the relationship and we get up set because they are not who we thought they were.
So maybe we have to make this decision at the beginning of the relationship, and then it is a matter of trust.