Is Gor Dying in Second Life? I have heard these words spoken so many times by so many different people over the past weeks. months.
I asked myself,
why are they saying this ?,
and is it true ?,
and what does it mean?
Every time there is a crisis in gor a Tribe gone or City, or a sim disperses. or there is a argument about which is better BtB or GE or SGE or people encounter a difficult time , some one blames the reason on Gor is Dying.
I decided to interview some Gorian role players. I asked them if they thought Gor was dying in SL
Ava (AvaDelaney) : though it was probably dying before she arrived!
bodi (bodicapagan): why do you think people say it?
Ava (AvaDelaney) : it’s a case of finding, or making, your own little part of it.
bodi (bodicapagan): i agree
Ava (AvaDelaney) : but also,for that to work, you need a flexible community that will allow you to do so. I just don’t tend to take no for an answer. Many are not like that,or the community rejects them. : You give people too rigid a structure to fit into they may not like it. Although obviously structure is needed to prevent total chaos.
bodi (bodicapagan): nods
Ava (AvaDelaney) : it can take time to find where you fit too and many just want instant results : I have been to btb places to rescue a slave that had been stolen and sold to outlaws. I did not enjoy the experience.
bodi (bodicapagan): i bet.
Ava (AvaDelaney) : it is suggested in the books that veiled and concealed free women envy slaves for the fact they can dress more freely,feel the sun and air at their skin. The same thing applies in sl.
bodi (bodicapagan): How you mean?
Ava (AvaDelaney) : on our sim that is GE I am able to dress in a more comfortable if slightly revealing dress while still maintaining modesty. I had a man come into the tavern and address me as Kajira since he was from a btb sim. Just because we have avatars, doesn’t mean we don’t feel confined when it is wrapped up in robes of concealment.
bodi (bodicapagan): So why do people say it is it because they want a gor that is not here and not move with time.
Ava (AvaDelaney): I don’t know,it makes no sense. It’ll become a self fulfilling prophecy : if everyone says that,new people won’t stay.
bodi (bodicapagan): Do you think it is because gor is not what they think or want?
Ava (AvaDelaney): But I’m stubborn. It’s hard work (my role as tavern keeper) but I keep going because it’s also fun. From what I’ve seen in my year or so on Gor, people do often have different expectation: to what they find : all have different expectations.
bodi (bodicapagan): Yes.
Ava (AvaDelaney): so embodiment. Snse of self. Anyway ..back on topic. It also depends where you arrive in Gor. If you arrive in Gor at Port Kar your first impression will be very different to if you arrive in a northern forest.
What I was going to say in answer was “All communities need new blood occasionally or they stagnate and people get bored and leave. However if newcomers keep hearing this question they’ll get disheartened and leave before getting started and Gor may well die. So if everyone just gets on role playing,enjoying themselves, welcome newcomers with open arms and swap the negative attitude for positive, there’s a likely hood of survival.”
I then posed the question to Sonja and Mari
گổηΐã (emmanuella.checchinato): Bodi, i’m in Gor since September 2007, so for now i didn’t RP cause i don’t find what I’m seeking for my fun , an about what people say i don’t think it’s true … as you said before “it’s come an go” so here it’s the same , on these two sim, because i expected to keep our band alive, but alone the both sim was deserted, after i changed my mind an invited Dani’ band to come back and give them my camp , the people come back we have around 5000 for the traffic and the two sim
I try to keep the sim BtB , but same time i know a lot of people come and they aren’t BtB at all … I’m not closed , if people respect the to sim rules so they are allowed to come to RP here , same if they are GE until they don’t come as Mickey Mouse
Because in the past i often RP with GE people and that was maybe the betters RP i never had.
bodi (bodicapagan): Yes some GE role play good and some no.
گổηΐã (emmanuella.checchinato): Yes and the same with BtB people, in the city they will say to you that they are pure Gorean , but really for you , for me , a true Gorean don’t exist it’s a fiction not the reality , so people need to keep in mind that Gor is just a RP and not a lifestyle lol.
Mari arrived at this point and heard about BtB and GE.
گổηΐã (emmanuella.checchinato): She asks me what i think about errr . well about the spirit of Gor actually.
Mariko Marchant: i have written an article about this for the Gazette called btb does not exist.
گổηΐã (emmanuella.checchinato): ill change your word “” GOREAN does not exist “” lol
bodi (bodicapagan): nods i was asking why people say gor is dying and how they base the reason , im writing about it
Mariko Marchant: Is gor dying?
bodi (bodicapagan): People keep saying this, every time there is a crisis): they say the real gor is dead or dying?
Mariko Marchant: there never was real Gor : It is not possible to play true btb Gor on sl because it is an implementation on a powerful computer platform which means you have to compromise. You can never play “real” Gor on a computer, some features are simply not realistic; like you can fight with the same strength with zero or five arrows in your body. If you want to play Gor closer to the books on a computer, you have to make a viewer without teleport, minimap, radar etc. and not use a meter but roleplay the fights too., Also spend a lot more time to get food and other things to survive in the harsh Gor world.
گổηΐã (emmanuella.checchinato): And others thing about the RP of Gor, most people aren’t ready to play totally , with their spirit … i often noticed that when you make a harsh RP they will not follow you cause they are scared to die to be capped ect ect , when we know that to be capped it’s a part of the RP , i had some RP that a warrior capped me in the past and they raped me , my role was to show them how i hate them , with all the feeling we can feel during a rape 🙂
bodi (bodicapagan): Wich is what would happen if it did.
Mariko Marchant: Not when people enjoy the game sl Gor. It is a wonderful game where you can make real friends but no more than that. It is not a lifestyle. If you want to experience Gor as a lifestyle, shut down your computer and go to play it for real
bodi (bodicapagan): so what would you both say if some one said Gorian in sl is dead, how would you persuade them?
Mariko Marchant: it is nonsense
گổηΐã (emmanuella.checchinato): Mari … BtB , GE it’s just some letter was create for make a distinction between playing a game by respecting a little the books and playing a game by doing anything here it is to fight all the time, with of course using the possibility we have on SL
Mariko Marchant: There seem to be secret gor btb sims : i think most people who call themselves btb are GE in fact: , Considering all this the conclusion should be: There is no “true” btb in sl Gor. You can only say some are more closer to the books then others.
گổηΐã (emmanuella.checchinato) nods
bodi (bodicapagan): So gor is not dying just different to people and is evolving and changing as sl change ?
گổηΐã (emmanuella.checchinato): but really , say me how many books you read 🙂
Mariko Marchant: I have all the books : I read parts of them now and then.
گổηΐã (emmanuella.checchinato): And you say that you play GE ?
Mariko Marchant: these books are hard to read.
گổηΐã (emmanuella.checchinato): Yes they are): because Norman isn’t really a great writer lol
Mariko Marchant: And there is a lot of the same in the books.
bodi (bodicapagan): He just had a good idea.
Mariko Marchant: it is a fantasy world.
BodicaPagan: So gor is not dying just different to people and is evolving and changing as sl change ?
گổηΐã (emmanuella.checchinato): but to create a saga and write all the book with sense isn’t easy at all … how much writers managed to do ? Stephen King , HP Lovecraft , Tolkien , Isack Asimov ….? no an in the reality made a saga like Gor so long with 34 books
bodi (bodicapagan): it is hard to write and have original idea.
Mariko Marchant: technology is changing..makes new things possible..John Norman could not foreseen this.
گổηΐã (emmanuella.checchinato): the base is good , first you have a planet the other side of the solar , and you add, slavery, Masters, you add also the leader of the planet , that in occurrence are the priest king from a other solar system , you also add their enemy the Kur and you are ready to write a saga with a lot of adventure , the concern with Norman is that he focused on only a man Tarl Cabot
bodi (bodicapagan): this is very emotive subject , I know and people come and want to play they not know how much work is involved to let them have fun
bodi (bodicapagan): thanks for interview i will inter view others and write it up.
I sent a notice to 3 groups asking them about this here is some reply s
Alliance of Valkyrie Panther
Flavius (lexiciaann): If Gor has really died, perhaps it will be reborn like a phoenix from the ashes.
bodi (bodicapagan): And then be different
ψ Rosecynder ψ (yugia): i’m know the gor I’m know all people was fair with me and no seek rapped me.
(onefoe.evermore): raping is in the nature of Gor
Claude (claude.belgar): And it’s a roleplay, not the real thing. Also, on SL it is always consensual.
ψ Rosecynder ψ (yugia): No raping is no natural gor.
bodi (bodicapagan): but does this mean gor is changing / dying?
1 (onefoe.evermore): I think it’s been dying for years): it will be more years of this/
ψ Rosecynder ψ (yugia): raped is just very very poor rp.
Claude (claude.belgar): People who think it’s real should consult with a mental doctor, Cavil 😉
bodi (bodicapagan): Then if you think it is what are you doing to save it?
1 (onefoe.evermore): I have tried to get my voices the help they need, but they will not listen.
Flavius (lexiciaann): I have only encountered SL Gor so far. I don’t know pretty much how it has been in the early past like 10 years ago or so. And I bet there was even some gor before sl gor.
Claude (claude.belgar): Yes Yugia, as is killing or castrating someone because you didn’t like their roleplay. You’re not better than them.
1 (onefoe.evermore): And burning penis i will not consent.
ψ Rosecynder ψ (yugia): i’m no know.. i just no like we hurt my friend and is normal ic would kill and have revenge
bodi (bodicapagan): so why do we not all agree on what is acceptable behaviour in gor?
Claude (claude.belgar): Thinking you are a special snowflake ?
Angrey young gor
Ladda Vacano: its the mazes and no rp.
Đᴀωɴ Đєѕтiɴγ (princescahottie): its the fact that no one wants to try and be creative and role play. we all want to just argue with each other over whether someone cheated and other nonsense rather then rp with each other.. and 95% of us have all done it.. its too easy to rage at each other
bodi (bodicapagan): So maybe we should have a code of honour or some thing
Xii Zaurak: Maybe should be better one code of rules for all sims and groups?
ℳoℓℓу Đєѕтiɴγ (molly.frostbite): yup.. we should be looking at more RP than pew pew… RP doesn’t have to start with a battle… it doesn’t have to be about sex… its about stopping and having a chat with someone and creating a story.
Bodi (bodicapagan): i think that a good idea, how about tribes coming together to agree rp or code?
Đᴀωɴ Đєѕтiɴγ (princescahottie): too many ego’s i think Bodi no one would want to compromise on their sim
ℳoℓℓу Đєѕтiɴγ (molly.frostbite): push rules and codes of honour aside… just talk and play and have fun.
Xii Zaurak: Agree with Dawn.
ℳoℓℓу Đєѕтiɴγ (molly.frostbite): imagine.. create… socialise…
Xii Zaurak: This don’t work Molly.
ℳoℓℓу Đєѕтiɴγ (molly.frostbite): Xii.. i have rp almost everyday.. without firing a single shot.
bodi (bodicapagan): If we all try it might work.
ℳoℓℓу Đєѕтiɴγ (molly.frostbite): there is no try, only do
Xii Zaurak: Me too molly , and no use bow for weeks , but usually is hard to find another for to make rp , and rarely it have continue for more then this hole day.
Đᴀωɴ Đєѕтiɴγ (princescahottie): My best recommendation.. is find nice people who like to rp, and maintain that relationship.
ℳoℓℓу Đєѕтiɴγ (molly.frostbite): you don’t have to have a reason to keep going back… only that you all enjoyed the interaction.
bodi (bodicapagan): so you are saying keeping gor alive depends on being being nice and role play with others who are nice
Đᴀωɴ Đєѕтiɴγ (princescahottie): yup you can’t change people, you can only manage your own actions, so if you rp and have fun, maybe others will want to join ya.
Teri (teri.questi) reads back..
Đᴀωɴ Đєѕтiɴγ (princescahottie): Ithink the best example is Eve Morrow. every time i see her she is super nice, and she is always role playing with someone.. so.. maybe how she conducts herself is what most should try to model.
Teri (teri.questi): ooh I like to RP and like to think I can do it just a little
ℳoℓℓу Đєѕтiɴγ (molly.frostbite): its true… if you make effort to RP… people remember… and those who enjoy will spread the word… everyone loves eve.. she is fun, funny, cute as a button.. slightly potty.
Đᴀωɴ Đєѕтiɴγ (princescahottie): TQ is great rp..
I had a message from Zephyr (Isolde Bethune), First Bow of the Veck ‘En who said she had wrote an article in GoG I have re wrote it here
This is from Zephyr (Isolde Bethune), First Bow of the Veck ‘En
Yes, Gor is dying.
I have been in Gor in SL for more than 11 years, and several changes have slowly strangled Gor.
First: Incessant cap-and-release raiding makes every day the same old game. After defending you camp from the same raiders for the umpteenth time, don’t you get bored? They know your defences, you know their strengths, and the whole scenario just drags out. To be in Gor just for raiding misses the point. A raid should occasionally interrupt other RP. For too many tribes and towns, RP is seen as something that interrupts raids.
Second: Too much fragmentation between BTB and GE and Disneyland have stuck us all in little boxes. As a taluna, the idea of being hunted by a BTB slaver from a BTB city is pretty cool. But I don’t get to visit them – that’s definitely not BTB. We all should be less GE and more BTB. That would encourage more RP.
Third: Raiding groups … These raiding groups have ZERO to do with Gor. You could be fighting aliens with ray guns on a mysterious planet and it would be no different. Mixed raiding groups are mindless and draw people away from RP. Someone puts out a call and all the bored group members show up to shoot for a while and go home. Capture the flag makes more sense.
Fourth: When was the last time you went exploring at sims you’ve never visited? Did you attempt to interact there in ANY WAY other than fighting? There are many trade goods, like G&S, that offer opportunities to see new places and meet new people. If you get attacked now and then in the course of peaceful RP, isn’t that more involving than another pew pew raiding group shoot-out?
So, yes … I think Gor is dying in SL, and I think GE is a big cause for it. The more GE has spread, the less interest there seems to be in Gor (you know this is true). GE has also led to a zillion different rules on different sims. Can slaves fight? Can slaves own a knife? Can you really say “melee-only” when forest women live by their bows? Unified rules would be a great start.
bodi (bodicapagan): waves i am writing a story for GoG about ( is gor dying ) would you like to make a comment>
乃ﾚu (blu.akina): No comment on that but i think the gor we know is.
bodi (bodicapagan): so do you think it has changed and is it better worse ?
乃ﾚu (blu.akina): It have changed to the worse, to much pew pew a lot less rp.
bodi (bodicapagan): how do you think we can change this?
乃ﾚu (blu.akina): i don’t t think we can to be honest.
bodi (bodicapagan): nods maybe by having more rp with people we like
乃ﾚu (blu.akina): that might work but do they want to rp or pew pew.
bodi (bodicapagan): i think some wants more rp like myself , maybe we just got to go out and find people who want to.
Tara Freckleface (tjytske): Tal sisters Bodi and Anjel
bodi (bodicapagan): Tal Tara
bodi (bodicapagan): im writing story did you see notice
Tara Freckleface (tjytske): I just read it sis….
bodi (bodicapagan): nods
I had good response.
Tara Freckleface (tjytske): I said those words, I feel those words): I’m afraid they will become true,, Though I hope not. If Gor really dies out, it will make me very sad.
bodi (bodicapagan): What can we do to help.
Tara Freckleface (tjytske): I’m afraid there’s not much we can do. 12 years ago when SL Gor started, it was new. And what is important: there were no social media.
bodi (bodicapagan): you think this made a difference?
Tara Freckleface (tjytske): Other online games have evolved, splendid ones, thrilling much more… Who is interested any more in typing): Yes I believe de social media have pushed aside SL.
bodi (bodicapagan): But they must be typing or do they voice more.
shą́ą́ʼ (freyaattheedge): tal all): More voice in outlaw groups doesn’t stop them dying to.
bodi (bodicapagan): so how do we help stop gor dying , we all love it , or is it just evolving?
Tara Freckleface (tjytske): Of course we love it, because otherwise we would not be here, question is more, why did tall the others quit?
bodi (bodicapagan): should we have a sim wide meeting to agree on things or to have sim wide rp?
shą́ą́ʼ (freyaattheedge): There are three issues as far as i see . 1 every harks back to better times , well memory plays tricks on all the reason we all rp more was the lag was dam terrible , to mesh brought cheating to a new level and we went away from splash so pc speed not brains that wins fights . then we have tp out if i am not spoken to in every 30 seconds group , we did it to our selves bit by bit.
Tara Freckleface (tjytske) nods
bodi (bodicapagan): so because people wanted more fighting and better weapons rp dying out?
Tara Freckleface (tjytske): Fujin already pointed out the dramatic consequences fo the change from spash to direct?
ձռցεl (angela.heideman): Seems getting quiet yes not gor only also SL
bodi (bodicapagan): Yes she did and it has.
Tara Freckleface (tjytske): Did you know Zima re-introduced splash on their sim
bodi (bodicapagan): Did they?
shą́ą́ʼ (freyaattheedge): Our friend sky had a point in the memo she sent out , but sky is like the old friend who tells you to keep away from the pretty boy, you know there right but you will never listen.
Tara Freckleface (tjytske): Mari learned from Sarka their EN.
shą́ą́ʼ (freyaattheedge): The only way to change this would be for sim owners to get together but that will not happen.
shą́ą́ʼ (freyaattheedge): Tal sis all good not sure, laughs. as i said the future of gor is in the hands of sim owners not us , they want to try to change i think they might change it
bodi (bodicapagan): i hope it will.
ձռցεl (angela.heideman): But also in our hands ..of course we have rules..but don’t whine about 4 minutes and 59 seconds instead of full 5 minutes that’s we do now.
marielou1 Resident: Anjel makes everything free and without rules and we make so the beginning
shą́ą́ʼ (freyaattheedge): As i said we can move away from where we are but it s no good one group in isolation.
Tara Freckleface (tjytske): No, the continent maybe forms the clue… if we could change things here, it would be a beginning.
bodi (bodicapagan): So maybe solution is a sim wide one, so maybe solution is a sim wide one?
Tara Freckleface (tjytske): Continent wide bodi.
AnJeL Goodnight: What changes?
Tara Freckleface (tjytske): Transition from direct to splash or half splash for instance.
shą́ą́ʼ (freyaattheedge): yes): Force thinking and help control cheats.
bodi (bodicapagan): I am writing a story anjel about is gor dying and what we can do to help?
AnJeL Goodnight: Ohh we were the last region to change to direct who wants to change back besides us.
Tara Freckleface (tjytske): Zima did.
bodi (bodicapagan): So which is better splash or direct?
shą́ą́ʼ (freyaattheedge): If you want all involved splash , don’t need a super pc or graphics card , but pew pew group not come here any way?
Tara Freckleface (tjytske): Direct favours people with high end game pc and US, and cause a mentality in which winning is important.
ձռցεl (angela.heideman): But is is dying because is direct now and not splash ..is not because we so hammering on rules?
Tara Freckleface (tjytske): Direct favours people with high end game pc and US, and cause a mentality in which winning is important.
AnJeL Goodnight: Well we can go half splash I do not think it wise to go full splash.
Tara Freckleface (tjytske): Direct favours pew pew. splash more rp.
AnJeL Goodnight: And target huds.
Tara Freckleface (tjytske): Well half splash is a good first step.
AnJeL Goodnight: I’ll change it later today can someone post it in group: we will try half splash for a bit.
Tara Freckleface (tjytske): Oh well, I can post it if you want
bodi (bodicapagan): Yes can someone who understands it post it.
Wendy Jelasco: Gor is not dead yet.
bodi (bodicapagan): nods , smiles): Cn you tell me why?
Wendy Jelasco: There are still people who understand that it is not a place without rules and regulations and teach other that is is not : if one cares to take a close look Gor is a very regulated society : if one cares to take a close look Gor is a very regulated society : maybe because so many leave because they find it is not the do as you please place they expected : and it is not so easy : life on Gor is hard.
bodi (bodicapagan): Yes it is.
Wendy Jelasco: So when a man comes to Gor he thinks he can take any female he wants and do as he pleases : and then he finds out he cannot, : so after a while these type leave again.
bodi (bodicapagan): You are right.
Wendy Jelasco: Maybe that is why some think Gor is dying’.
bodi (bodicapagan): You do not have raids here, is this because you want rp not pew pew.
Wendy Jelasco: because they see so many leave and old ones drop out (only normal) or take a pause (also normal) : aii
Please read and make comments we are all here to role play in Gor we all want the same thing , we want Gor to continue and to grow, we want good roleplay, we want to have continent role play, there have been good suggestions as how we can improve Gor
from players not understanding what Gor involves and getting bored.
To splash from direct hits?
To rules keeping them, having too many rules?
To having fun and role playing with people who are fun, and encouraging others
having flexible community to allow people to play?
Stop moaning about old gor life and embrace the new enjoy what we have
and to stop ourselves having alts we all have them (yes we do).
What do you think?